Some thoughts on the abortion debate

[gemfyre]

Someone on abortiondebate asked a question to the effect of what was the difference between abortion and infanticide.

My reply was that I really didn't see much of a fundamental difference.  It was just a better option to get it done as early as possible and because it was not socially acceptable to kill a born child (heck, people still do it anyway).

I've been thinking further on the subject since and came up with a few things.

Most abortions are carried out because the mother cannot properly raise the child/does not want the child (therefore cannot properly raise it, it's kinda hard to be loving to something you never wanted)/cannot go through pregnancy (for whatever reason).

The world does not need more unwanted children.  Yes, there are SOOO MANY childless couples out there why on earth are you aborting??!!!1one  The truth?  There are also thousands of children out there waiting to be adopted.  Maybe we should take care of them first before we insist on people who don't want to be pregnant on having a child and giving it up.

Anyways, that isn't my point.  Why is abortion more okay than infanticide?  My thoughts.

When a born person is killed, it affects everyone around them.  Friends, accquaintances, loved ones.  They all feel the loss.  This person had a life, knowledge, memories that have been snuffed out.

When an embryo or foetus is aborted, only the mother and maybe the father feel the loss (and possibly other family members, but if a child is going to be aborted, the mother generally doesn't go telling everyone she's pregnant).  The unborn didn't possess any knowledge to divulge, didn't have deeds to finish, it was just a blank slate.

So that's it.  It's preferable to terminate the life before while it's still a blank.  And pregnancy is one of the things many women who abort want to avoid.

Comments

[sammmmmmmmm.livejournal.com]

I've never heard that term before, I have a disturbing mental image now.

[gemfyre.livejournal.com]

which term?

[stawberi.livejournal.com]

Well... according to the criminal code, abortion is terminating a pregnancy, it's only lawful if performed by a medical practitioner.

Killing unborn child is another offence, where a baby about to be delivered is stopped from being born alive by an act/or omission without which it would have been born alive.

A pregnancy becomes a person when all of it is out of the mother, whether or not it has taken its first breath, has independant circulation, or is still connected by the umbilical cord.

Now, and interesting this is, that legally, infanticide is when a girl or woman causes the death of their baby due to their suffering some sort of post-natal depression. It has consequences less severe than murder.

Just some definitions which might be helpful. In my opinion, abortion is different, because you can't give a pregnancy up for adoption like you could a baby, and it's not something you should have to go through against your will.

[gemfyre.livejournal.com]

I'm not a fan of law so I usuaully don't bring it into the argument.

I just see things as they are, not as what's technically legal and what's not.

I have many gripes with law. This is why you're studying it and not me. :)

[imaginor.livejournal.com]

it's kinda hard to be loving to something you never wanted
I have a friend who was raped and got pregnant from that rape. She never wanted the child and was going to give him up for adoption. Until she gave birth and fell in love with him. It's really not that hard to love something that you *thought* you didn't want.

I also used to know someone who used having abortions as their form of birth control.

I agree with you on that I think abortion is more okay because the person who has the abortion doesn't go around talking about it except to people that are close tho them.

[gemfyre.livejournal.com]

Indeed, some rape babies do end up loved.

Personally, if I became pregnant right now I would be shitting myself, it would totally fuck up my life. But personally I don't believe I could abort it and I'd most likely give birth to the kid and raise it and love it.

Abortion as birth control - You can tell some people about the health hazards of abortion and the wonders of contraception till you're black and blue and they'll continue to be stupid. What can you do? You certainly don't want a person like that being responsible for a child.

[imaginor.livejournal.com]

Abortion as birth control - You can tell some people about the health hazards of abortion and the wonders of contraception till you're black and blue and they'll continue to be stupid. What can you do? You certainly don't want a person like that being responsible for a child.
Sadly this person already had 5 children, all of them by differnt father's. She was the mother of one of the guys I dated back in high school. She was pregnant with the 5th one when I was dating him as she thought that the father of the child would marry her if she had it...but he didn't, suprise surprise. She was one of those people who should never have been allowed to have kids, she was a horrible mother.

[gemfyre.livejournal.com]

Ugh.

Train wrecks like that are awful.

[stawberi.livejournal.com]

Heh. I'm not too fond of all the legal stuff either, one of the first things we're told is that law makes no sense and we'd better just get used to it.

But I was looking at infanticide in one of the lectures today, so it was already in my mind.

[aequanoctis.livejournal.com]

How stupid can you be, preferring all the hassle of an abortion rather than a magic little pill per day, it's irresponsability coupled with masochism!

[just-laura.livejournal.com]

Well, a born child is not inside my body. That is a difference. Anything else that crawls up there will be summarily executed as well. ::resists urge to use childfree icon::

[shadowshifter.livejournal.com]

i hate this topic coz its always a difficult one.

on the one hand, i understand if someone's flipping out about being pregnant coz they had no choice (rape etc...something else i hate, i find any rapists i tear their nuts off in the most imaginative way i can think of at the time). i still dont like it even then but thats one call im not going to judge, having been close enough to that point.

them aside. ive started hating this topic more and more recently. i hate the people that do it and the people that promote it as some kind of "women's choice" bullshit. if its a "choice" thing some dumb slut obviously "chose" to have unprotected sex or "chose" to have sex at all in the case of retarded affairs like condoms breaking. if they -really- didnt want to get pregnant they shouldnt have done it in the first place and its their own fucking fault for being stupid. and i think ive seen all attempts to pass the blame on that one. people jes refuse to accept reponsibility for their own stupidity.

if there were actually intelligent humans in the world there wouldnt be so many unwanted kids and we'd nail both problems (of abortions and unwanted kids). non-humans and human children are the best. its stupid fucked up convoluted pointless adults making life more complicated than it needs to be that we could do without.

[jakie-em.livejournal.com]

there is infantacide and neonatacide. there are different definitions to what is classifiable as what but neonatalcide is generally in the first 3-6 months after birth, infantacide can be up to 18 months.

in cultures where abortion isn't avialable, neonatalcide is common. some people do it out of depression.... there at lots of things. I remember hearing a story of a girl who gave birth in the toilet at her prom and dumped the baby in a bin and went on with the night.

then there is the recent news story that there is a way to be assessed to have a late term abortion. most abortions wont be done after 12-16 weeks, but in WA (and qld) it is possible to have them up to 21 weeks (under assessment in WA)

I am educated because I am pro-choice

[gemfyre.livejournal.com]

It's a Catch 22.

They did something stupid by having unprotected sex and got pregnant. But really should the kid be punished by having such stupid parents? Some people just pop out kids for all the wrong reasons and/or use abortion instead of birth control, which is just awful.
It's just a huge headache.

You on the other hand. I don't know if your bub is planned or not but I DO know that it's most certainly wanted and that you'll be an awesome mum. I'm just seeing this kid learning Kung Fu about a week after it learns to walk. :)

[sammmmmmmmm.livejournal.com]

Infanticide, I live under a rock.

[shrika.livejournal.com]

Do you hate me too then?

[shadowshifter.livejournal.com]

i know i said i hated "everyone" that has anything to do with it but i can make exceptions. it doesnt make me hate the issue any less.

[shrika.livejournal.com]

I sorry to, I didn't read completely, way to painful. I just don't think that you can ever look at the whole when it comes to this. I sure as hell didn't want to go through with it but I had little choice. I have to deal with the fact that medically I may never be able to have children without serious risk of permanent damage to my body or even death. Yes I would die for my child but I am not the only factor. And no matter how I work it in my head the option I took wasn't good enough, I punish myself daily even though I know it was the best option at the time.
I really can not understand how people can promote it in a good light of a last minute birth control but experience has also taught me there are valid reasons for it to happen.
Now that my heart is raw and my eyes wet with tears I will leave this here.
Wait I have one other point... I will never forgive myself, but peoples attitudes make it impossible for me to ever really be able to talk about it. That is what saddens and hurts me most.

[shadowshifter.livejournal.com]

and im sorry...same thing, emotional and forgot to include medical things. i was referring specifically to people that basically have abortions coz its inconvenient for them to be pregnant, no other reason (although ive heard some fairly creative ones to justify).

there is no possible way i or anyone else could hate you for something you cant help.

im sorry *hugz*