It's evolution bay-bee

[gemfyre]

I don't get all these religious types who believe that God negates evolution.

I just watched yet another show on evolution and crikey, it just makes me believe in a God even more. All that utter brilliance and chance and simplicity and complexity and adaptation and everything all rolled into one. I mean, how could you look at all that and NOT believe in a God??

*smiles to herself*

Comments

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

i stopped believing in god once i learned that scientists have discovered that the part of the brain that can tell the difference between an outside (ie whats usually thought of as a religious thought or voice, but also means other things) and an inside stimulus gets supressed during activities such as "praying" or the buddist "becoming one with the universe" and other such religious fervour clap trap.
Why would the brain have this fault? Quite simple. Evolution.
Ones who didnt believe in god were killed as heretic for thousands of years. Humans who group together survive, and religious have sparked some of the nastiest and best survived groups out there.
And as for evolution being wonderfully complicated and brilliant...
The fault with humans is that they tend to believe that they are the REASON for all that chance and brilliance, rather than the end product. Oh wow, they say, look at all that complexity all leading up to me, must be some kind of design behind it.
Must be a REASON. Has to be an EXPLANATION. It just couldnt have all happened by chance and I just suddenly popped up accidentally and just happen to be admiring it right now. Oh no, that would make me feel horribly insignificant. My ego cant have that. Therefore, I must make up a STORY to explain it, cos Im a human and I so love doing stuff like that.
Of course, all these things happen inside your head, in the bits where the part that makes you think you are a "you" and not just a collection of random memes fooling themselves.
I look at a bee and its amazing dance to show other bees where the flower is, and i think "somewhere in the past, there was this queen bee who had really CRAZY bee workers who used to twitch their legs whenever they found good flowers, and the other workers worked out from the way it twitched which direction said flowers were" rather than thinking "how could that massive complicated dance have possibly just POPPED UP? I cant conceive of all the little tiny intricate steps (with all the fatal and nasty dead ends, isnt nature wonderful?) that led up to it through millions of years of life and death. God musta done it. Yeah, the story fits then, and I feel better about myself. Im not small and insignificant. Im important."
*smiles to himself*
And thats all I have to say about that.

[terrycat.livejournal.com]

Totally agree. Though I hate those idiots that view evolution as a linear process, or worse yet, those that treat it as a religion.
Bastards.

[terrycat.livejournal.com]

case in point.... *points at Morninglords rant*
So many pseudo-scientists refuse to believe in god, because the bible (written by men, then translated for several thousand years) is inaccurate. of course it's inaccurate. so? many dont believe in god because science is provable (well duh. thats what science IS) just because evolution is real, doesnt mean that god is dead, nietze(sp?) ignored. Science and faith are not mutually exclusive. I believe more in a god because of the beauty of the brain, and the amazing steps that lead to it, than before i learnt science. As someone once said "A miracle is something that happens when needed. Is it any less a miracle if it can be explained?"

[confetti-1.livejournal.com]

No, not high on ourselves at all, are we morninglord? You're *humble*. Right. So *that's* what humble looks like.

Grr.

And incidentally gemfyre, I agree with you too. :)

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

i wasnt arguing anything, just stating my opinion.
I firmly believe in not arguing the existence of god, because an arguement is something that happens when two people are willing to be led by the other persons point of view. A believer cant do that. EVER. Thats sacriligious. Its against god.
Its such a lovely little mind fuck, religion. Such a wonderful little memonic virus spreading throughout the brains of thousands of people, and it hides itself behind one of the strongest forces in the human brain, which is that of guilt.
I view people who believe in a god as victims of something they really cant do anything about. I like em, and are friends with them and still think theyre human.
But theyre victims, none the less.
Its why I find it so funny that people think IM the victim, cos Im not susceptible to this particular memonic virus.
Cos the important thing is that while im not a believe, im willing to be convinced if you can argue your case successfully. Just nobody ever managed to do that.
And i mean, hell, if im wrong, and I end up in front of god and he chucks me in the pit of hell or whatever, then what the hell, he wasnt worth it anyway. Im living a good life as a good person the way I see it. I dont think I should have to believe in a god just to live it the "right" way.

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

Who said I was humble??? Im as arrogant as the day is long.
^___^

Hm

[peppermintrose.livejournal.com]

Don't usually stick my nose in, but this conversation caught me before I've had my daily calming dose of sugar. I don't think morninglord was ranting at all. In fact, he brings up some interesting points just when I thought I'd heard it all on both sides of the god issue. Yes, I'm an atheist and yes I think the Bible is a bunch of stories we just can't seem to make ourselves let go of yet. No one wants to think we're just a part of nature, everyone wants a chance at "heaven" (which if you really read the bible is near impossible to achieve anyway), and while they're spending time worshiping they're ignoring the fact that they need to make their own heaven on earth for themselves and for others. This is our one life, our one real chance to be happy and make a difference. Don't waste it. Don't live it for a supposed afterlife! *firm nod and wanders back to her own journal*

[sassamifrass.livejournal.com]

I totally agree :D

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

I prefer to think of myself as Agnostic rather than Atheist.
Although I'm not sure about that...

[firvulag.livejournal.com]

Hrm, I so totally disagree with believers not being alowed to argue stuff.
I'm a believer.
I question everything all the time.
I fuck with people's minds all the time.
Not usually a reason for it, i just like doing it.
S'pose i'm just like Loki from Dogma :)

Re: Hm

[firvulag.livejournal.com]

I'm quite willing to say were part of nature.
isn't everything part of nature?
I think the point gemfyre is making is that with the way evolution works, it's so complex and intricate, it seems more likely that there is a higher power behind at least setting it all in motion than just pure chance.

TR

What do you mean I cant be a Christian and a Scientist?

[firvulag.livejournal.com]

actually more like a week :)

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

allow me to amend that statement.
I didnt mean they couldnt argue stuff. I meant they arent SUPPOSED to argue wether or not god actually "EXISTS". They can only be on the side of exists. Theres no middle ground.
That makes them all, to a greater or lesser degree, fanatics. And impossible to argue with about the existence of their god.
On other points, they can argue all they like. The memonic virus doesnt mind that.

LOL

[peppermintrose.livejournal.com]

You Agnostics ;) Well, the important thing here is that you learn to think for yourself, and make your own decisions instead of blindly falling into whatever the general populace or your family believes, etc. You definately don't seem like a blind follower. I don't mind my religious friends, I just worry about them.

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

Im only an agnostic because
1). its funny
and 2). its the true scientific principle of never formulating an opinion on something until you have proof either way.
I gotta be agnostic, or i cant truly be of an atheist mindset.
Cos there AINT no proof either way, and neither will there ever be.

All true scientists are agnostic :)

[firvulag.livejournal.com]

And I'm yet to meet an athiest that will argue on the side that god does exist, so whats your point? Atheism is a religion? well duh!

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

did i say "aethist mindset"? i meant scientific :P

[terrycat.livejournal.com]

"which is that of guilt." not true. Guilt is a part of religious control, not religion. Hey, i believe in god from my choice, not cause im afraid of hell. if it exists, Im probably going there anyway, so whether i worship or not doesnt matter. but i accept that i cant prove or disprove he exists, so i choose to believe.
And seriously, stop assuming you're superior. just because you believe in the religion of science instead of god., you are any less of a victim of the deep neurological virii.

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

the point I was making is that this belief in the likelyness of there being a higher power is the fault in human beings to need a more firm explanation than real tenuous chance.
The human brain doesnt LIKE to think in terms of chance and numbers and stuff. It prefers to think narratively.

[firvulag.livejournal.com]

Actually there will be, but by that point, everyones fucked.
If you were right, then yay for you, you get your afterlife, or you don't depending on which side you stood on.

All the fence sitters are screwed either way, cos one side is right. No one knows which though.

Me, I put my faith in going with the god exists line.
If i'm wrong? i don't lose anything, cos we all get a big fat nothing.
If i'm right? I get heaven (hell if i'm right but wrong, but can anyone see that happening? *smirk*)

I have other reasons for my faith but that is something that made sense to me.

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

oi, when did i say i was superior?
isnt that your offended principles swinging into action and demanding you whack me down for the attempted attack on your side?
oh and im agnostic, as i said. not atheist. what you say about atheism is true, which is why i prefer to sit on the fence.

*smiles*

[peppermintrose.livejournal.com]

Don't get me wrong, I see what you're saying. But I'm also pretty sure the world isn't run by purple trolls, just because it's not actually proven I still know it's not. I don't think god is any more realistic than my purple troll theory. He just got a big old book written about him is all. Gemfyre sure opened a can of worms with this one, eh? I love it, makes people think. The only other thing I had been doing before all this was mindlessly deleting porn spam off my email account.

[morninglord.livejournal.com]

But how do you KNOW?
They could be everywhere! They could deliver your mail, do your taxes, protect you while you sleep! They could be wearing disguises!
You never know...
*da da da dummmm*

[firvulag.livejournal.com]

Hrm, I love my maths cos i do think in numbers.
Sure the human brain mightn't like to think that way, but your argument here is so much more the standard athiest argument (science is right so religion is wrong breed) than your agnostic viewpoint you want to put across.

Sure the world runs on chance now, but what set that chance in motions? just more chance?
If you keep going with that thought, your athiestic, not agnostic. you KNOW there is no god.
otherwise, somewhere along the line, chance was set in motion by a higher being.
or chance is a higher being manipulating in ways that the human brain cant comprehend. (without more evolution maybe?)

Re: LOL

[firvulag.livejournal.com]

I think that should be more You! Agnostic? Never! with everything else he's writing. He thinks he hasn't buttered his bread, but he's just not looking at the bread to see!